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Thread: Choosing tires

  1. #1
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    Choosing tires

    As everyone knows, those 4 little black round rubber things can help you win or lose a race. I've been racing about 2yrs now and still trying to get the tire game in the ball park to at least stay competitive. I have talked to countless people that stay up front, gathering as much info as I can. I don't want your secret tire prep recipe or anything, but instead, how to read the track. What durometer do I need, what preps should I be using (like I said, you don't have to give me mix this much and that much, your choice if you do) mid day do this, evening do this, dew in the air do this. I know this will be a long post for someone trying to give all aspects of track conditions, but most of the time, the tracks seems to be fast but how do I treat my tires to use that speed the track offers? Any info is greatly appreciated. BTW all I run are maxxis pinks and blues. TIA

  2. #2
    4 Cycle Advanced User flattop1's Avatar
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    First you need to walk out and look at the track first hand . Take a screwdriver with you stick it in to see how far or if it goes on rub your foot on it maybe even feel of the dirt.
    Then temp and weather conditions.
    You have a note book.
    A set of cut tires if you don't already have them.
    Or two.
    Preps internal pick one and stick with it. Chosse a reasonable amount.
    Outside prep same thing stay with one , where you get support.
    You will need to track a class in front of you with a stopwatch , to see if it's getting faster or slower , on average. That will tell you if you need a less preped tire or more duro or both.
    As it gets faster you need a less aggressive wipe.
    You may even want to cut your prep with a thinner like acrosol , Trac tac quick dry or vmp naptha.
    Air pressure and of course tires that's wore out , won't help.
    They may look ok but they aren't fast .
    Getting hooked up with a tire guy or local shop will yeild results quickest if you've not tried that route.

  3. #3
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    I run matt Bryants prep from palmetto speed shop. He is local and knows the tracks I race. I've called for advice and he will sit and talk with you but if he's not at the track that night he can't go into detail with me. Which way do I go if the blade goes into the track or if it doesn't. How many wipes are to many? How many arnt enough? Do I wipe with a medium base or just black sand? Just alot of variables of course, but where is the starting point of it all.

  4. #4
    4 Cycle Advanced User flattop1's Avatar
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    Does palmetto have Black sand ?
    Blacksand at the track you need to cut it as it's supposed to be applied ten days out.
    First start with what you have been doing .
    Make changes based on that.
    If you can stick a screwdriver in 1 1/2 inches you need a soft tire with goat or green. If a quarter inch couple wipes of hard track .
    How many sets you have now ?
    How old , how many laps on them?

  5. #5
    4 Cycle Advanced User flattop1's Avatar
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    Are they prepped inside ?
    Are they prepped saturated ?
    What your asking is nearly impossible to answer.

  6. #6
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    I have 16 and 17 tires. Some with 20 laps some with 40....they have been been prepped inside but I'm sure it's drawn out by now. I have used tires for the most part but from people I race with and know what they put in them. I know this is nearly impossible and just the little details like you gave lends me a starting point at least. Green or goat i barely use unless the track is soaked and those sets of tires are off to the side for a just in case. Let's see if this helps....the track is hard and fast....track is running high 11s 1/5 mile.....what should my durometer be and what should I be wiping and how much? Not to add anything else but how do you know how much inside to roll? I know your ready to slap me through the screen right now

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    What track?

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    You've got a big advantage that your close to Matt and he knows the tracks you run, All you can expect is some basic info the rest you will need some trial & error sort out on your own, Because most of your questions are track specific NO one on here can answer most of your questions with any certainty.
    Just ask Matt 1 st does which ever track require an older cured tire like you have, or a fresh tire, 2nd how many cc internal, 3rd what should you wipe through the week & how much, 4th what to wipe at the track, 5th about what should they durometer, this is all for normal conditions of course. Start with applying that info and listen to what he tells you If you take advice from a bunch of different people your going to get all screwed up, Also with Maxxis they need flipped on the wheel once the edge rounds off there not much good for racing on a good fast surface.

    Also don't put to much into the old screw driver test as an in general, you can use it as a guide at a certain track once you gauge it yourself, but just to say if it goes in this far always do this will not work, I know tracks that race Fri or Sat nights that you won't get a screw driver in no 1/4 " and there far from making any grip, in fact 11's HARSH chemical and a torch or your out to lunch.

    Good Luck !!

  9. #9
    4 Cycle Advanced User flattop1's Avatar
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    Racing Promote has good solid advice.
    I just got the ball rolling.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by flattop1 View Post
    Racing Promote has good solid advice.
    I just goR the ball rolling.
    You stated it best when you pointed out most of what he was asking was nearly impossible to answer, CAUSE it is !!

    OP if your asking because your off on making any speed and your scratching your head, most likely your problem is your trying to run older cured worn tires when you should be on new fresh rubber.

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    Thanks promoter...I'll see if I can chat a little with him this week....last time we talked he said older tires were fine just a little more work during the week. I was just wanting a little knowledge from what others go by knowing their "normal" Saturday night race and what they are looking for at the track when they arrive and as the day goes on. I believe I have gotten close a many of times on tires but I've still think I'm missing something or not doing something right (second guessing myself).....I run TTT most of the time Jnhracing but also southern kartway and fastrax

  12. #12
    4 Cycle Advanced User SoCo Tire Treatments's Avatar
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    First off, keep the program simple. Not many of the top Pros, including myself, care about what the tires duro.
    Personally how much internal and when is more important.
    Old tires is usually meant by how long the tire has had internal, not how old the actual tire is. Those 2016 tires wont work, and if your 17s are early in the year tires, they probably wont either.
    Everything is based on the track and how much "grip" is available at the track, dont worry about day going into night, dew, etc., just keep an eye on lap times and that will help a bunch to know what the track is doing.
    For the tracks you mentioned, internal is the most important prep. But wipe some at home, not a lot and nothing aggressive, and at track use what Matt recommends since youre on his prep.

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    Thanks SoCo.....the 17's are nov/Dec tires...would you/could you reroll the tires if need be and when would you? Is there a certain amount to roll and how do you know how much? I'm just trying to find the concept on inside prep and how to know what to do and when.

  14. #14
    4 Cycle Advanced User flattop1's Avatar
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    20-120 cc is pretty typical.
    Round about now my guess would be 40 cc.
    It's all dependent on the prep , when to tell roll also.
    When they say work harder that means more prep. Reroll the old set and get you a new set roll with the recommendation of the prep guy.
    Shoot even in 05 a guy told me if you aren't rolling inside your done.
    It's a big ol test at best , that's why tire guys are valuable they get way more info passed to them then the average racer.
    Developing a relationship with someone at the track helps also . Fully sharing what you know, because what you leave out could be the most important piece of info .

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    Alright flattop......I don't want to be a PITA at all but I'm not going to take you saying roll 40 and walk away because I want to understand what made you say 40. I want to learn this but I get fustrated when someone won't tell me why. I'm taking everything everyone on the post is saying and putting it together to use it. I WANNA GO FAST RICKY BOBBY!!!

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    I'm sure people have came and asked these questions before and you tell them what to do but the're only good 1 night. I wanna be that person that can say I missed on tires tonight but I'll get them next week.....for sure I heard the big guys say that a couple times

  17. #17
    4 Cycle Advanced User flattop1's Avatar
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    You can ask all you want it not s problem for me.the reason I say 40 is it's kinda middle ground.. and there old tires that had something in them. Earl or Matt surely know better then me. Can you describe the surface last time you raced on it. You need to be able to look at it and see if it's sealed up or open , taking rubber or prep groove etc. Having only been In Florida once I know nothing of the surface , might be sand and sea shells for all I know . It sounds like you need three or four sets all rolled different .
    As has been stated following three different agendas is not going to work.
    Do you have a roller ?
    Sometimes you just gotta throw the kitchen sink at it and see how it shakes out .
    When your good enough that which prep you used as a wipe makes a difference you will be better then 98% of the country
    Reread everything from post one with no preconceived thoughts and try to accept the things presented.

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    I talked to matt eariler and he gave some good advice on where to start and which direction to go in a certain case just as you guys have done...the track stays almost consistent throughout the day looks (to me) sealed and even after a little rain shower the track came right back...*which I why I said it looked sealed*....I do have a roller and Matt told me to wipe my sets differently with no set number of wipes but increase the number of wipes each set untill I find what works that night....other then fifty sets of tires to try....it's finding what's working and fine tuning....flattop, you were spot on with 40 as he said 40- 60 and don't worry so much on durometer, just grip in the track

  19. #19
    4 Cycle Advanced User SoCo Tire Treatments's Avatar
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    40 is not enough with a Maxxis, the amount of internal is based off which class, whos prep, and the available grip in track.
    Average amount of internal for a stock heavy is about 75cc-100cc. Theres always exceptions, could get down to a 60cc, could be up to 150cc.
    Internal controls sidebite, helps with re fire also.
    As for re rolling, depends whos prep, what they recommend. Some need to be re rolled often and others not so often. The tracks you have mentioned, sometimes you need a month, 2 month, even a 3 month tire at times.
    Using Matts preps, talk with him, see what he recommends.

  20. #20
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    I was going to post not many tracks good enough for a 40 cc Internal on Maxxis, and Avg would be 75 CC to 90 CC so as usually I agree with Earl and would be taking his advise.

    Good Luck !!

  21. #21
    4 Cycle Advanced User CH3Racing's Avatar
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    I am familiar with those tracks. If you want you can always give me a call. I dont know a lot about the prep you are using but I know about what tire you need to be on.
    Chris Harris
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    Not trying to hijack the thread, but do Junior karts generally run the same, less, or more than what a stock heavy kart would run?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJRacing View Post
    Not trying to hijack the thread, but do Junior karts generally run the same, less, or more than what a stock heavy kart would run?
    15 to 20 more CC generally, and little higher air pressure.

  24. #24
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    Triple T

    80cc 4-8 week tires. Your trackside will need Black Sand.

    Southern will take a bit more worked tire.

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    Appreciate it jhucks....I'm sure the black sand will have to be cut?

  26. #26
    4 Cycle Advanced User CH3Racing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkin06 View Post
    Appreciate it jhucks....I'm sure the black sand will have to be cut?
    I would if you are using it track side.
    Chris Harris
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