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Thread: Struggling with Coyote XP!

  1. #1
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    Struggling with Coyote XP!

    I've got a 2007 Coyote XP with an Animal that I'm trying to get a handle on relative to setup. My biggest problem seems to be that I have to add about 50 pounds to make the weight class. I know I need to keep it high to get it to transfer the weight on the corners, but I can't make that much weight fit on the seat and still get it to scale out right. The other problem is I'm a vintage kart guy and this is my first effort in running a chassis with caster and camber adjustments and I have no idea what to do with those and what effect it will have with changes. Basically, I'm an idiot looking for guidance! Can anyone help me? Thanks!

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    Put the weight lower. We typically had some on the lower mounting bracket for the steering shaft and some on the floor pan. Location on the floor pan was dependent on the desired front weight. We have had weight on the floor pan under the steering shaft (in front of gas tank) as well as bolted to the floor pan just in front of the crossbar under the front of the seat.

    I have found with the Coyote XP karts that I have setup that they work better with weight down lower. Probably because they are stiffer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01ron View Post
    Put the weight lower. We typically had some on the lower mounting bracket for the steering shaft and some on the floor pan. Location on the floor pan was dependent on the desired front weight. We have had weight on the floor pan under the steering shaft (in front of gas tank) as well as bolted to the floor pan just in front of the crossbar under the front of the seat.

    I have found with the Coyote XP karts that I have setup that they work better with weight down lower. Probably because they are stiffer.
    Interesting. I had someone from Coyote tell me just this weekend that I should take the weight out of the bottom and put it on the seat. I had about 25 lb. mounted just in front of the crossbar like you are describing. I moved about half of that up on the seat and that seemed to work better, then I moved all of it and that made it worse. I figured the reason it was worse was because it moved weight to the rear and messed up the front/rear weight bias. I need to scale it again and see where I'm at to tell for sure.

    I'm thinking about making up a longer chain to get the engine moved further forward and help load the front, then maybe that will give me more possibilities to bolt on weight where I need it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brettm57 View Post
    Interesting. I had someone from Coyote tell me just this weekend that I should take the weight out of the bottom and put it on the seat.
    Have you thought about moving the seat a little farther forward? It doesn't take much. This would allow you to bolt your lead on anywhere you want.

    For bathroom scales on a flat surface will get you real close on corner weights. There are free programs available to do the math.

    One is at; anunley@austin.rr.com.
    From the desk of Al Nunley 512-630-6215
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    When you have 50 lbs of lead to install, we put most on the seat but mid way up instead of as high as you can mount it. Then mount the rest of the lead like I stated above to get your front weight at the desired percentage. I don't like mounting weights on the frame rail tabs or by adding frame rail weight clamps. I believe that mounting lead on the tabs or addition of clamps can/will affect chassis flex.

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    Remember, no matter what, 42% Front, 50% Left, 50% Cross weight is where you want to start. Here is what I would suggest for a process. Being a little bit scientific about it will help in the end even if it takes a lot of time up front.

    Strip all the lead off the kart. Scale it with out any additional weight. Set your camber at -0.5 on both the right and left front. Make sure your stagger is even left to right. Get the kart to scale to the numbers mentioned previously. From that point, start adding lead 2 5lb pucks at a time. One to the front, and one to the back of the seat. Repeat until you hit your total weight. Keep splitting the weight high and low on the seat as well. If you see the nose weight is already where it needs to be, then keep stacking the weight on the seat if you can. You can stop placing it up front.

    Nose weight will change, but if you stay between 41% and 43% you will be okay. I seem to find that unless you are on really hard tires like vega reds or something similar, the limit on the nose weight is 44.5%. The YLC's seem to give up pretty quickly with that much nose weight.

    If you can get everything to scale out with those percentages you should have a good base to tune from. Keep in mind you may need to adjust the camber a little bit to really get the weight percentages dialed in. But try not to go crazy. As long as you are with in 5 lbs difference in weight between the LF and the RF while keeping the percentages as close to 42F 50L 50X as possible the kart should drive a lot better.
    Jason Zobkiw
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    Jason - after watching you run this weekend, your advice goes to the very top of my list. Thanks!

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    4 Cycle Advanced User Bergh223's Avatar
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    Thanks Brett, I appreciate that. Feel free to PM with any more questions.
    Jason Zobkiw
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    OK, I need to correct my first post. I have a 2007 Coyote Wide Track GL, not an XP.

    Next, I'm wondering about the steering on this thing. A gentleman from Coyote (I don't know his name) told me that the tie rods want to be in the rear-most holes on the spindles. When they're in that position the outside wheel stops turning in at around 50% lock, and will actually start to turn backwards at full lock. I'm having a hard time convincing myself that's the way it should work. I realize I should never have to go to full lock while racing, but still it seems to me that the steering shouldn't even be capable of doing this if it's set up right. If I put the tie rods in the front holes on the spindles it doesn't do this when turning, and it seems to be able to turn a tighter corner with the same amount of steering input. So what is right here? I'm perplexed.....

  10. #10
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    They will do that with Ackerman steering.
    Looks funny. But can work. Typically you won't be turning that far.

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    But on my kart the outside wheel barely turns in when turning the steering wheel. I don't mean to sound argumentative about it, but again that doesn't seem right to me. I understand ackerman and how it works, but this seems like an extreme example.

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    After another conversation with Coyote Saturday afternoon I found out that the rear bumper should be torqued to 150 in/lbs. The torque on mine was so low it wouldn't even move the needle on my torque wrench, so I set it where they recommended. After going to the track yesterday it is working way better than it was. I can keep up with the field with no problem. Now it's as much driver error as anything else. I still need a little more chassis tweaking to suit my style, but at least I'm in the window now. I'm finally getting someplace!

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    If you keep the cross at 50%, and the left at 50%, the LF and the RF will always weigh the same as each other. Same for the LR and the RR.

    Another thing to play with; tread widths front and rear. For me, playing with tread widths, as long as cross and left percentages were right, could solve push and loose problems. I found actually that adjusting the front width would solve a lot of the push and loose problems. Narrow the front for push, widen the front for loose.

    I like to keep it simple, after all, the front is connected to the back. What happens in the front will affect the back, and vice versa.
    Last edited by alvin l nunley; 07-24-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Glad it's better.
    Did you run the steering , as they suggested or as you originally had it?
    I'm all for what works best!

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    I left the steering the way I had it. In a PM with Bergh223, he gave me a very good explanation of the effects of ackerman going through a turn, so now I'm rethinking this and going to do some more experimenting with it. After watching his karts run a few weeks ago, I'm taking his advice to heart.

    I've still got a lot to learn and I welcome all opinions. The last kart I drove competitively was a 1985 Emmick Elite, roughly 30 years ago. There's been a lot of advancements since then! It's tough teaching an old dog (almost 60) new tricks, but I feel like I'm in the window now and I'm having fun with this new challenge. That's all that matters to me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brettm57 View Post
    I left the steering the way I had it. In a PM with Bergh223, he gave me a very good explanation of the effects of ackerman going through a turn, so now I'm rethinking this and going to do some more experimenting with it.
    Wikipedia has a very good illustration of what "true" Ackermann is. It's been many many years since I've seen a kart with true Ackermann. I like to call, what is now being used, "Ackermann affect", in that the inside wheel is turning more than the outside wheel. Actually, if the kart is handling correctly, you're turning the steering wheel so little it makes little difference that karts don't have true Ackermann.

    I have found, with "Ackermann affect", as is used on karts today, if the spindles are done right, moving the tie rod connections closer to the kingpin only makes a kart harder to steer and quickens the the movement of the tire relative to the movement of the steering wheel, more steering effort is the result. Some like less steering effort, some like quicker response.
    From the desk of Al Nunley 512-630-6215
    Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
    If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)

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