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Thread: 3 tech items

  1. #31
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    At our local track tech is accomplished via weight check coming off the track, fuel check coming off the track and a pill draw. 12 dominoes in a box. Pull one out and whatever that number corresponds to is what is checked. Can't build "around" the rules because you don't know what pill will be drawn or what test that pill maps to as far as that goes. Pick the tests you want and map them to the pills and get on with it. Anything illegal found on the way to checking the pill drawn equals DQ.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmoll10x View Post
    Well i do have another question. How would you perform the check?
    they make gauges that check the compression, just pull the spark plug, but the gauge in the spark plug hole, turn the engine over.
    From the desk of Al Nunley 512-630-6215
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  3. #33
    4 Cycle Advanced User DynoDon's Avatar
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    Al, don't you think if compression checking was a valid test in karting that it would have been done in years past and a written rule by now. That's my last comment on the subject
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynoDon View Post
    Al, don't you think if compression checking was a valid test in karting that it would have been done in years past and a written rule by now. That's my last comment on the subject
    "I'm right, my logic is unassailable, therefore there's no need for further discussion" is that what you're saying?
    From the desk of Al Nunley 512-630-6215
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    If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)

  5. #35
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    Well, at least he used logic.

    Al, you are being very stubborn about this, and several of us have given you many examples of why a compression test is NOT a good method of teching this engine.
    It would seem as though you're stomping and snorting that you are right about everything on here, including something that you admittedly know nothing about (clone engines -- post #29 your words, not mine.)
    Why continue to dig your heels in the sand on this issue?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlsonMotorsports View Post
    Well, at least he used logic.
    I see the :-), with the wink, thank you.
    From the desk of Al Nunley 512-630-6215
    Comments compliments criticisms and questions always welcome.
    If the data does not support the theory, get a new theory. (Al Nunley)

  7. #37
    Gee Al, You had the floor. The thread asked for the "Top Three Tech Items for the Clone motor". You offered up compression testing as a "quick and easy" way to accomplish one of those top three things to do. Yet you can't tell us why we should do it, or what the results should be for having done it. or for that matter any sort of detail on how to do it (other than the most rudimentary instructions of stick a gauge in the spark plug hole and pull the cord). Further you tell us you have never even seen a clone motor or apparently even know anyone who owns one where you could actually go give it a try. Then you become indignant and proclaim you don't understand why people on here don't fall in line with your particular thinking. I think in this case your signature line says it all: Your data doesn't support your theory, so get a new theory.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmoll10x View Post
    Gee Al, You had the floor. The thread asked for the "Top Three Tech Items for the Clone motor". You offered up compression testing as a "quick and easy" way to accomplish one of those top three things to do. Yet you can't tell us why we should do it, or what the results should be for having done it. or for that matter any sort of detail on how to do it (other than the most rudimentary instructions of stick a gauge in the spark plug hole and pull the cord). Further you tell us you have never even seen a clone motor or apparently even know anyone who owns one where you could actually go give it a try. Then you become indignant and proclaim you don't understand why people on here don't fall in line with your particular thinking. I think in this case your signature line says it all: Your data doesn't support your theory, so get a new theory.
    I'm sorry, I just assumed all those that know anything about engines would understand. Apparently I was wrong.
    From the desk of Al Nunley 512-630-6215
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  9. #39
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    No one is saying compression is not important. We all know it is, but with the clone engine it is a difficult, time consuming thing to check with no real "Tech" benefit. It produces wildly various results even in back to back tests on the same engine. An electric starter will not spin it fast enough to consistently over come the Compression release on the cam, so just pulling the rope is useless. Also the test will only tell you that maybe the CC's are low, something that could be checked faster and more efficiently with a CC check.

    And yes I have tried checking compression on a clone. Yes it was a waste of time and effort.

  10. #40
    Well said Renegade and thanks. Just maybe even people that already know everything there is to know about motors will now be able to grasp the concept.

  11. #41
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  12. #42
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    If I was a tec. The first thing I'm doing is looking at carb jets... Any mod but compression requires more fuel... Get and average of what most legal motors run... If its bigger then that start digging deap... 2nd is a duration check... If u really want to it can be done right on the kart only taking valve cover and flywheel cover off. (That'll give a quick look in the valve cover to look for added shims, bigger springs, rockers so on.. The last thing I would want to look at is compression... Although a pain to really check just eye ball the gasket area if its milled enough ull see it! Or even take a caliper and get an average of what most legal motors measure from top fin of block to bottom fin of head... (Not the best because this will vary block to block but if its .050 off it wouldn't hurt to open it up)

  13. #43
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    We raced for years at a track with only 3 rules. Flathead stock appearing, 5 horse fltwheel, and the appropriate restrictor plate. Lots of room to try different things. Tech should have been a foregone conclusion.
    Promoters kid caught first week of season with extremely oversize plate. Claimed kids must have put in there by accident. My response was why do you have such a thing, if you don't plan to use it.
    Several seasons later, found 3 horse flywheel on same racers engine. Response was, we can't hardly keep ahead of you, so you must be illegal as well.
    Point being, no matter how open the rules, someone will always push those as they are seen as the simplest way to more power.

    Simply check several of the items expressly prohibited by the rules for a start.
    Make your rules have a protest provision with a monetary penalty for other items. If racers feel it is a problem, it will come to light.
    All racers really want is ŕo feel they all have an opportunity to win.
    Last edited by 95 shaw; 05-20-2017 at 10:29 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by alvin l nunley View Post
    I've never even seen a clone engine, how would I know?

    To your second question; as competitive as that class is, if you win and your engine has no compression, or really low compression compared to your competitors, I would be suspicious. I would want to look further into how you can win a race with a lot lower compression than your competitors! If you found the valves adjusted as described, you could back them off and rechecked the compression.

    Checking engines for legality can be a pain, but unless you want to run a "run what you brung" class, it's something you're going to have to do. Like I said, a compression check is quick and easy and can quickly give you indications that you may need to check further.

    At many races, that might be the first line of attack, maybe the only line of attack, unless you find someone outside the norms, then you would check further.

    All I'm saying is; a compression check is quick and easy. I'd be suspicious if anybody refused it.

    Okay, here's a challenge, let's see if you can find more reasons to question me about compression checks!!
    The part i just highlighted in this post, is exactly why you should not even be commenting on the topics in this part of the forum Al, and i am just being honest here. Half of your posts in the clone forum end up confusing new racers, and dragging out posts longer than they should even have to be in the first place. Please think about that before you post here. It may not make sense to you why compression isnt checked on these engines, but the main reason it does not is because you do not understand how these engines work, and are teched, in all honesty here.

  15. #45
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    This is just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth to you.

    I would take a list of everything mentioned here, minus the compression test of course, and write that list down, with a number beside each one. Get you a handful of the cheap white poker chips, and put a number on each one, corresponding with the numbers on the list, and put the chips in a bucket. When it comes time to check engines after the race, the winner draws 5 chips, and those 5 things are checked, 2nd place draws 3 chips, and those 3 things are checked. 3rd place draws one chip, and that is what is checked. Does this make sense? That is the fairest and easiest way i can see to keep the tech simple and fairly quick, without keeping everyone there all night in the tech barn. As far as what i think you should look for when deciding WHO to tech other than the top 3, watch on the track....watch for any kart that is jumping 4-5 kart lengths or more ahead on the starts, or is simply checking out a strait away ahead of the field in the races, that is who should definitely get a closer inspection when it comes to tech usually, because if all engines are built equal, nobody should be jumping that far ahead on the starts or checking out that badly in the feature unless they are just well ahead of the competition when it comes to skill level and equipment. As far as what should be checked and what order, here is the list of what i think should be part of tech, and in that order. This is just for unrestricted engines, for the restricted stuff, the same should apply, with the plate check being mandatory no matter what.

    1-cam profile (notice i said profile, not just lift)
    2-valve springs
    3-cc's
    4-carb venturi (jets dont really matter, only so much can be done with a legal engine and multiple combinations that can be used, or ways to get around spec jet sizes)
    5-ports (short side radius edge not been deburred or messed with, sharp edges not been deburred or filed, and no material has been added or removed, visual check only for local racing)
    6-piston pop up (make sure there is none or flat top pistons being used)
    7- crank stroke (predator crank and rod will swap right into a clone block without modifications to the block or crank/rod)

    If you arent following AKRA or NKA rules, and want to make the cam rules fairly simple and easy to check, make it a rule that only the BSP (Box Stock Project) cams can be used, since those cams ALL come with the cam name stamped on the cam gear, such as BSP1, BSP2, BSP3, ect.. and would make checking the cam as easy as pulling the side cover off, but the profile check is still the best way to tech the cam in my opinion. Who is to say someone wont send one of the BSP cams to someone like ISKY and ask for a special regrind? Thats where the profile check is needed.

  16. #46
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    IMO , After many , many, dyno runs ,A restrictor plate is pretty much all U need to check to have a Fun easy class . Even a 20hp Open will make only 7hp with a Green .425" plate . Then add a "Claimer" to help keep costs down

  17. #47
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    Try to keep rules an Tech as simple as possible to have Fun . And keep "Big money"purses away .

  18. #48
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    Sneaks,
    Nascar has restrictor plate racing and those engines are more expensive to build/develop than unrestricted. (and that is with other rules on the engine)


    I think George (OP) is running a small start-up track and looking to get new people in the gate.
    Honestly, I think picking one set of rules (AKRA, WKA, etc) and sticking with them will go a long way toward attracting racers to his track. If established local racers think that there is no common tech there, then they won't bring their legal engines out to run. Further, if there is little to no tech, then a few less than honest racers will cheat up what they've got to meet the few rules of the track -- that will definitely drive off the legal engine competitors.

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