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Thread: First predator

  1. #1
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    Feb 2015
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    First predator

    Ok guys just got in to karting with my son were racing at a nice prepped backyard track for fun now for starters we have stock 212 predators with governors removed I've put exhaust filter and 140 etube and .37 jet what are some other things I can do without doing an all out build on these motors to gain a little more power I don't want to blow everyone else away that's no fun just seems like everyone's got just a little more power with the same chassis setup and gearing

  2. #2
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    blueprint engine and or tires are beating you tires can make a bad engine look like the best ever

  3. #3
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    What do you mean by tires the prep the width, compound?

  4. #4
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    He means how they are prepared, such as prep program, size and stagger. A good set of tires and decent engine will smoke a decent set of tires and a great engine everytime, with all else being equal. Tires are what wins races! I suggest getting in touch with someone who can start you on a good tire program and take the time to learn it. For your engine, you could mill the head and get the compression up some, add a bigger cam and stiffer springs, advance the timing some, or put a better carb on it. You need a billet rod and flywheel before you go putting a bigger cam and springs in it, but compression gain will be what shows the most improvement in a basically stock engine

  5. #5
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    Ok now I know the arc alum flywheels have 8* advance built in but how can I advance timing on this engine otherwise

  6. #6
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    You can advance the timing with the stock flywheel by using an offset flywheel key.

  7. #7
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    Can advance timing with any flywheel using key, not just stock ones

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93lxscreampuff View Post
    Ok guys just got in to karting with my son were racing at a nice prepped backyard track for fun now for starters we have stock 212 predators with governors removed I've put exhaust filter and 140 etube and .37 jet what are some other things I can do without doing an all out build on these motors to gain a little more power I don't want to blow everyone else away that's no fun just seems like everyone's got just a little more power with the same chassis setup and gearing
    Backyard track. Trade engines with someone, use the clutch off of your engine, and see if the difference is really engine.

  9. #9
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    have to disagree with the "tires can make a bad engine look like the best ever" statement.....not to cause any issues....but a bad engine is a bad engine and the best tires in the world will not make it any better. if the engine can't deliver the power to the rear wheels, then you ain't going anywhere really fast. if your engine sucks, then you AIN'T GONNA WIN.....period. prepping a set of tires right is important....but tires alone don't win races.....

    my take on it is simple......TIRES + ENGINE + SETUP = WINS AND TOP FINISHES... if you can't add all the factors up, then your a mid pack racer or a back marker....and if you get the move over flag, there's a race goin on and you ain't in it......take it for what it's worth. you listen to the tires, tires, tires crowd and you don't do your homework on the motor and chassis set-up, then you throwing money down the drain.....my thoughts only!!!

    improvements:
    1. get a different cam. stock cams are good for mowing the yard, but not for racing.
    2. set your timing at about 32 degrees to start using a modified flywheel key.
    3. you said that you put exhaust filter? not knowing what you meant, get a header. even with a muffler, a header will help. get rid of the stock piece of junk.
    4. go with an aftermarket air filter. using a bigger main jet and a 140 e-tube, you probably have upset the air/fuel mix and you need to get more air into the engine....(you didn't say if you've already done this).
    5. if your using the stock spark plug, change it!! go with a 3910X racing plug. cheap horsepower.....
    6. get rid of the stock valve springs and get a nice set of 10.8 or 18 pound springs...

    not much more can be done without incurring cost. blueprinting an engine costs. some might be doing that, but I doubt it on a run for fun backyard track. those kinds of engines usually run in the higher end races. not saying that your track isn't a good one, but spending a lot of money on blueprinting, tire programs, exotic parts...all that....for a fun run track doesn't make a lot of sense.

    likewise, you might need to look at the clutch....see what everyone else is running. a good clutch will give you a little more "oomph" at the drop of the green. you can lose races by not getting the power to the axle as quick as possible.

    this is all I can think of right now....still working on my first cup of coffee!!!

  10. #10
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    Feb 2015
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    It is a brand new predator hemi it has a header ,k&n "style" filter and adapter .37 jet and 140 etube just bought a 3910x plug yesterday and I was thinking about the isky mamba jr cam with the springs and arc flywheel along with a mls .10 headgasket oh and ? What is the base timing on these engines

  11. #11
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    Stock timing varies from 15*-20*

  12. #12
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    Feb 2015
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    Would the mamba jr be to much for my setup and does any body have a better cam suggestion

  13. #13
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    If you can run a mamba and everything else is up to par... You will be happy...

  14. #14
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    Feb 2015
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    I appreciate all the advice guys I was thinking the other day about my gear ratio I'm carrying speed out of the corners but my engine is topping out halfway down the straightaway I have a premier magnum 11t clutch and 68t sprocket my buddy says his pulls all they down the straight with a 11t and 60t gear ratio confuses me sometimes should I be going down in rear sprocket teeth or is there more to it he's running same setup engine wise

  15. #15
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    It wouldn't hurt to go down maybe 4 teeth to see if it helps you out if yalls engines and setups and tires are same his gear is lower so it will carry him down the straight away better

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikey56 View Post
    have to disagree with the "tires can make a bad engine look like the best ever" statement.....not to cause any issues....but a bad engine is a bad engine and the best tires in the world will not make it any better. if the engine can't deliver the power to the rear wheels, then you ain't going anywhere really fast. if your engine sucks, then you AIN'T GONNA WIN.....period. prepping a set of tires right is important....but tires alone don't win races.....

    my take on it is simple......TIRES + ENGINE + SETUP = WINS AND TOP FINISHES... if you can't add all the factors up, then your a mid pack racer or a back marker....and if you get the move over flag, there's a race goin on and you ain't in it......take it for what it's worth. you listen to the tires, tires, tires crowd and you don't do your homework on the motor and chassis set-up, then you throwing money down the drain.....my thoughts only!!!

    improvements:
    1. get a different cam. stock cams are good for mowing the yard, but not for racing.
    2. set your timing at about 32 degrees to start using a modified flywheel key.
    3. you said that you put exhaust filter? not knowing what you meant, get a header. even with a muffler, a header will help. get rid of the stock piece of junk.
    4. go with an aftermarket air filter. using a bigger main jet and a 140 e-tube, you probably have upset the air/fuel mix and you need to get more air into the engine....(you didn't say if you've already done this).
    5. if your using the stock spark plug, change it!! go with a 3910X racing plug. cheap horsepower.....
    6. get rid of the stock valve springs and get a nice set of 10.8 or 18 pound springs...

    not much more can be done without incurring cost. blueprinting an engine costs. some might be doing that, but I doubt it on a run for fun backyard track. those kinds of engines usually run in the higher end races. not saying that your track isn't a good one, but spending a lot of money on blueprinting, tire programs, exotic parts...all that....for a fun run track doesn't make a lot of sense.

    likewise, you might need to look at the clutch....see what everyone else is running. a good clutch will give you a little more "oomph" at the drop of the green. you can lose races by not getting the power to the axle as quick as possible.

    this is all I can think of right now....still working on my first cup of coffee!!!
    When i said bad engine, i meant bad as in a possibly worn out engine, not bad as in a poorly built one. Been running an out of date 2014 clone engine every week against many new engines from top builders around the country and it is still right there with everyone else because of my tire program. Thats what i meant when i said what i did lol. A well built engine and a good fast set of tires will be the fastest one on the track.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93lxscreampuff View Post
    I appreciate all the advice guys I was thinking the other day about my gear ratio I'm carrying speed out of the corners but my engine is topping out halfway down the straightaway I have a premier magnum 11t clutch and 68t sprocket my buddy says his pulls all they down the straight with a 11t and 60t gear ratio confuses me sometimes should I be going down in rear sprocket teeth or is there more to it he's running same setup engine wise
    You can try leaving the 68 on the rear and put a 12t on the front, which will give you more strait away speed plus will keep you from topping out so quick. Or you can keep the 11 on the front and put a 62-63 on the rear. Take teeth off the rear gear to decrease max rpms and add teeth on the rear to increase rpms. Anytime you are topping out before the end of the strait, take a gear or more off the rear. You want to top out right before you let off the throttle to get thru the turns.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    11
    Thank you this is what I was thinking but another guy at the track told me I needed to go up to a 72 I didn't think he was right but I started over thinking and convinced myself I was wrong appreciate everyone's help

  19. #19
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    Oct 2013
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    Austin TX
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    11/68 @ 6000 = 31.26 MPH
    12/68 @ 5505 = 31.26 MPH

    This means one tooth on the clutch = you only have to turn 5, 505 to be going the same speed on the top. Of course if you turn over 5, 505, you will be going faster on the top.

    One tooth on the clutch, at that ratio, is equal to five teeth on the axle, or pretty close. I would think that would hurt you off the turns.

  20. #20
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    Oct 2013
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    Bonaire, Georgia
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    w5r....thanks! lol!!

    optimum that your looking for is the highest rpm that still consistently delivers power but doesn't top out before your letting off for the turns. changing gears is one way to get the most. without going into a long drawn out mathematically correct formula, when you drop your rpms, your also dropping axle speed. if your gearing shows it should be turning 5500 and all the others are turning 6000+, then the absence of 500 rpm's mean that your axle is turning that much less (again, how much depends on your gearing). again, it's all what you feel comfortable with.....

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