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Thread: Clone Quality

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,542
    We built a jig/platform with a shaft through the bores, mill base, rotate, deck and bore.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Evans View Post
    Mark, is your engine a 196 or a 212? And if it's a 212, how will that affect all the current 196's that are currently in use?

    And thanks for your in depth comment.
    The new engine will be a little larger. But I was just mentioning opinions Tillotson has a 196 for the current box stock so we're in that market already. The current 212 Tillotson is pretty much the same as the Ducar 212 and its primary design is for epa so it can be used industrially but like anything else guys are Hot Roding them. So, we are building a second version based off the 196R with more displacement, bigger valves and more compression for guys in claimer 212 class, mini bikes and a starting point for opens. The newer engine will be another step to having a clone platform that will do everything from spec engine racing to having the quality and engineering for guys running 14.5ci opens or rwyb classes.

    How will this affect the current 196 is hard to judge because its not going to replace the box stock unless racers choose to replace box stock with this engine but what I believe it will give a place for more clones in modified classes. So for part makers and engine builders I would say this is good because the clone is already the leading engine on the dirt. I also believe this could allow consolidation for businesses to create and innovate parts for a single engine rather than feeling the need to design a multitude of parts for multiple engines. This is one of the problems with lawnmower racing, too many opinions leads to not enough support or development. At EC's we are moving more so in that direction with billet heads and billet carbs which we hope to have to Randy at dynocams to build a cam around that combination so the open classes will have an u-build it kit to build a wicked ohv open.

    I've interjected because the topic of a controlled spec clone has come up a few times at the shop over the phone and here on this forum. In fact, I believe we're not the only ones building towards a spec clone. One thought as to an example is to have a controlled open for sprint racing. I honestly don't know if there are 4 cycle opens running road course and sprint tracks anymore but with a coil controlling the rpms it would be an engine builders dream to build what ever engine they want and use the 14.5ci rules in combination with a limited coil and we're back running sprints. So you could say ask the question how would that affect 2cycle racing as well.

    I know this is a clone thread but this program isn't just a one direction deal and its intention isn't to replace box stock racing(we have an engine for box stock we would be stepping on our own toes). I think without giving the proper details that is the speculation and we're just tip-toeing around that idea without saying it. Its not the case but if its adopted it wouldn't be something we have control over and its been said that others have tried and failed. And one reason is because it was trying to replace something that was already successful. I think the clone has been a success for karting even with its struggles but if we look back to flatheads and pretty much everything previous we ran the same engines on everything. That isn't the case today. It leaves room for our engine to find its place whatever that may be. Would I like it to be the single engine we use? I can't say I wouldn't like the idea. I hope this answers your question and makes clarification.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Racingcarb.com View Post
    Are you having success building these engines and turning them over 7000 rpms?
    Wasn't really my point. We've had claims of guys winning with the Tillotson 196 with not much more than carburetor tuning/blueprinting. That sounds like great marketing testimony but the reality is that engine didn't win that race and we know this but what it may have done is save the guy a little money by working his chassis, tires and that nut that connects the steering wheel to the seat. I believe to some extent that is the point you are making with your question. Sometimes a little less is a little more.

    We have jumped I would say at least 1000rpm in cam design over the last few years and the racer's drug is more. More hp, more rpm, more everything. Inexperienced racers in their lack of knowledge and understanding believe that engines need to turn 7000+ to be competitive and with an engine not designed for it and on the edge you tend to break stuff and disappoint customers. One of the biggest debates for a while here was allowing billet rods. Going down the path of the flathead which raised the cost on the racer ultimately and is probably why it hasn't passed. So a billet rod last longer you are replacing $20 bearings or $60 billet rods. The justification for the rev limiter and one reason it gets brought up no matter what you do you only turn X rpms and you will only need to replace a $6 rod ever so often.

    While this is a clone thread, the thread was to compare the briggs to the clone and the common thought was a middle ground of the two. A spec or controlled clone with a rev limiting coil. The common consensus of the LO206 is praise of its reliability and longevity. Your latest post shows that the latest clone blocks are better in tolerance to the briggs making the clone a possible better choice for a spec engine I would think.

    I think the concern for you and I may be wrong is replacing the box stock engine and knocking out the other importers. I have no problem offering them anyone of our engines at the same deal that we (EC) buy them from Tillotson and working with them if this engine did ever take off. And we have tried offering. At this time no one is fully committed but there have been interest. Whether its a party or not guys appreciate the invitation and would rather be fashionably late. So if you're worried at all about the box stock engine class don't worry about it they're not interested and like I said we have an engine already competing in that class. The engine isn't to compete directly with another engine in its stock form though we hope to use its components in modified classes. Right now the engine its going to Ireland for 2019 and 2020 to Britain and possibly Australia.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Bellevue , Ohio
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    1,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Racingcarb.com View Post
    Steve,
    I use a dummy crankshaft I machined, same one used to support block for boring if needed. I also have a jig set up to check top land on piston when attached to rod and crankshaft assy. I have not checked them with the original crankshaft used in the engine.
    Sounds like you've done your homework..........nice job Eric !

    Steve

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