i had the intercomp and geckers, both are very good. i would go with geckers if i had the choice. i used mine with a $100.00 postal scale though not a karting scale
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James Raines
Fast Forward Tire Solutions
Waks Cut Tires
Rapid Bodyworks
CCI
601 498 8471
As far as spring rate goes how do you match the tires up that way? Put the two together that have the closest rate? Say the rates are not exactly the same does the higher rate go to RF? Someone with a good bit of knowledge on spring rates PM me please. Thanks.
As far as spring rate goes how do you match the tires up that way? Put the two together that have the closest rate? Say the rates are not exactly the same does the higher rate go to RF? Someone with a good bit of knowledge on spring rates PM me please. Thanks.
We always put the stiffer spring rate on the right rear - not the right front. Maybe that's just me -- but we spend lots of hours checking tires to match them as closely as possible. If we are going to a big race where we know we'll be on several different sets, we'll try our best to match right sides set for set so we don't change how the car reacts to tire pressures, etc. Each set gets matched and numbered accrdingly so we don't mix them up come thrash time at the track.
Certain production runs are pretty consistent and pretty much follow date codes -- others are all over the place -- just depends on the batch you get I suppose.
So knowing and matching to spring rates allow for the consistancy of the kart from the tuning/set-up perspective? Do you think knowing and matching the spring rate makes enough difference to say you can win or lose a race base upon matching them? Also, why would the LR and LF not be as much as important as know the right sides. Seems as if the right sides were kept constant and the LS ran were different from set to set the kart would react act differently on each set. Sets would even act different on the kart with the same type, amount, and application method of preps. So you could get as technical with spring rate as you want I think, but as long as all spring rates were as close as possible the kart would be very consistant, assuming the rest of tire program was consistant as well and set-up remained the same. Bottom line question is does anyone believe they win and lose races because you have your tires match correctly and others don't?
That's a tricky question. I would say yes it can lose you a race. I would say almost everyone who makes the national shows consistantly, without a doubt spring rate. If you can have 5 sets of the same tire, that all rate out nearly the same, then you don't have to worry about one of those sets being mysteriously slower than the other. But the problem with that is, that rate may not be the one that would be faster. So there is an extreme cycle to this. In other words, it could get expensive.
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Mark Strange Motorsports
Strange Cuts
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Exactly. Another question would be does the tire need to be cut and prepped before it is tested to get a more tru reading or is the rate affected by this? If so, you run into a lot more money, but do the spring rates vary by huge amounts? I have never tested a tire. I mean essientially you probably won't find but one set out of several with the same exact rates correct? So is there acutally rates that are faster or is just essential to get stiffer and less stiff tires at the right corners?
Well that's something Mark and I will learn more about. When we think we have figured that out, I'll get back with ya . From what I understand, if you get the tires from the same batch then they tend to be closer in rate. So my guess is that if you want several different rates, when you order your cases of tires I would tell them what you are doing and to pick different date codes.
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GSR Tire Treatments
Venom Juice Dealer
Mark Strange Motorsports
Strange Cuts
618-402-4145
I would be interested to hear the results for sure. I find it hard to believe there will be a "magic" set of spring rates that will be the fastest. I want to believe knowing the spring rate is optimal in knowing what corner to place the tire. If there is a so called "magic" someone does tons of buying, mounting, spring rate testing, dismounting, and selling perfectly good tires, but I would love to hear the results.
I think the "magic" is the people who have a good handle on spring rates and the effects on the kart aint sayin squat.
I know theres alot to be gained by havin a good matched set,Id lke to know a whole lot more,instead of just shootin in the dark.
I would be willing to bet that a tire with more inside prep would have more spring so that being 2 tires treated with 2oz on inside rolled would have the same spring rate. Do you think that a set rolled with 2oz would be alot different from one to the other, I would hope not.
Exactly, thats what I just said a matched set would be essential, but there is not one set of rates that's the fastest. Just pairs the sets correctly to optimize performance. However, if there was a so called "magic" number I would like to atleast know if someone has tested and proven a certain rate combination is ideal. One last point I'm sure the folks who are actually testing these spring rates have an exceptional grasp on prepping tires, set-ups, and the whole nine yards. I don't see a bigginer jumping into karting taking a shot in the dark saying spring rates are the secret guys.
Yes it will change the rate if cut from what we seen. The different angles you use, how much ruuber on the tire,...etc. You just take notes and go from there. As stated earlier we also used the stiffer rate on the rr. Bburg17 you would be surprized!
If you spend your time looking for a "magic" spring rate tire -- you are missing the bigger picture. Keeping spring rates consistent is more important than finding a set that is optimal for the racing surface, car set-up, etc. You can adjust the kart to acommodate different spring rates. Tire psi makes a HUGE difference in spring rates -- IE higher pressures will loosen a kart on high grip surfaces. If you start with a higher spring rate set, then you won't necessarily have to run as much air pressure to free the kart -- can you use this info to your advantage now?
Most guys that I've worked with over the years are more concerned about eliminating variables (getting a bad set for instance). You better believe that cutting them makes a difference in spring rate. I don't even bother to spring test a tire before it is worked (cut and prepped). It may give you a ballpark idea if you have a bad tire or not, but more often than not, the problem is not in the construction of the tire. When we get used tires in to refinish or recut, I see more problems than on a brand new sticker set. Without a doubt, the most common reasons are incorrect moutning and improper prep application -- ie internal prep not rolled in long enough.
There's speed to be gained in having the proper spring rates on your kart -- but at what expense? For the average local racer - the return will never exceed the investment. When you race at the national level, the guys up front are on top of their tire game (and most of them are more concerned with consistency in tire spring rates - not in finding a "magical" rate set.) There are already too many variables in prep choices -- keeping the spring rates constant is a big advantage at that point.
I agree. Consistancy is a key to racing. If you get fast and can't repeat those steps to be fast again you are back on square one. Got a lot of info to take in and think on! I have never tested a tire, but it all makes since and I can see there is a lot to gain from knowing and testing spring rates.
Yes it will change the rate if cut from what we seen. The different angles you use, how much ruuber on the tire,...etc. You just take notes and go from there. As stated earlier we also used the stiffer rate on the rr. Bburg17 you would be surprized!
The more rubber the more spring rate, is that correct? If so I usaully run lesser rubber on RR so is my common sense (thats scary) correct according to your spring rate testser?
