4 Cycle Karting Forums - NEW 4 CYCLE SPRINT SEREIS

gary10

02-16-06,, 10:47 AM

Kart84,
You and all the other people that keep saying this is a Margay Series catered to Margay karts are a bunch of whiners. Nobody complained when for the last 5 years or so Dunlop was the spec tire! And hey look who is one of the big suppliers of Dunlop, COYOTE! They have been supplying their guys tires at a discounted rate for years and some even got deals from Dunlop to get them for FREE. Coyote has been making money on the tire rule for the past few years and I didn't hear anyone whining about it.

And I couldn't be more sick of people saying the Margay is a Euro kart designed specifically for these tires, wheels, etc. You guys obviously know nothing about karts even if you think you do. I for one would rather have an open wheel size and if anyone has looked at my kart lately they would know I run a setup typical to that of a bandit or coyote. All it took was one person to say a Margay was designed for these tires and now all the rest of you uneducated, uninformed people just jumped on the bandwagon.

Looking back i remember MANY people, especially coyote drivers opted to use Firestones when we had an open tire so what's the difference now.

The Gold Cup Series has been 90% coyotes for the past ten years and that is all anyone talked about. Now that there is some competition everyone is whining and complaining. Aren't we here for the competition?

Gary Lawson

mag17

02-16-06,, 11:07 AM

I think that is pretty straight forward Gary. Well said.

05 Margay

02-16-06,, 09:31 PM

WOW!
Who put a quarter in that guy? LOL!!!

Well said indeed!

Phantom01

02-16-06,, 10:11 PM

Gary, I wish there was more people on the competition committee with your atitude. We enjoyed racing with you guys last year at Lowes, even if it wasn't the GN. I thought our offset was competitive, but with the new rules they took us out of the game. Leaves me wondering, is it hine sight, over sight or they just don't care. Thanks Dave Osborn

gary10

02-16-06,, 10:20 PM

Dave, Yeah unfortunately it does kind of eliminate guys like you with offset karts. I would consider it an oversight because their just simply aren't many offset guys besides yourself, although you proved very well at Lowe's that you can be more than competitive. I was definitely looking forward to racing with you again and maybe if it's not at the Gold Cup it will be somewhere else. Either way good luck next season.

I try not to get too worked up over comments like this anymore but there is a time when enough is enough. Just come out and race to prove people wrong if nothing else. If you think Coyote, Bandit or any other kart is better come down to Jacksonville and prove it.

Phantom01

02-16-06,, 10:26 PM

or go to summit point

Steven *Aardy* Pfeifer

02-16-06,, 10:27 PM

Dang Gary, I aint heard you this fired up since the big stink at Thompson - but hey, you know how to get the point across and its a damn fine point too. I like what ya said, and its true too.

Margay & Bandit just stepped up their game, whereas Coyote got complacant and now is gonna have to play catchup. Thats the name of the game though, stay on top of things or get left in the back, Margay and Bandit obviously has been doing their homework more of late and worked harder, plain and simple.

Keep up the good thoughts Gary - there are those of us who know you speak the real deal (even some of us non Margay guys LOL)

rookie driver

02-17-06,, 05:09 AM

I'm with Phantom, Summit Point. There talking 25+ in 1 of the animal classes. Doesn't take much to switch your kart over. Mainly bodywork and brakes. Yes there are narrower chassis. But your kart will work at summit to try it.

NJ Todd

02-17-06,, 07:56 AM

NEW SEREIS STARTING MARCH 24-26 JACKSONVILLE FL JUNE 30- JULY2 EAST LANSING AUGUST 4-6 BEAVERRUN NOV 305 LOWES MOTORSPEEDWAY.. THE NAME OF THE SERIES IS THE MARGAY RACING NATIONALS . FORMELY KNOW AS THE WORLD KARTING ASSCOTION. WKA HAS DONE EVERYTHINHG IN THERE POWER TO HAVE A SPEC SERIES FEATURING NOTHINHG BUT MARYGAYS.

four words.......spell check / caps lock

Steven *Aardy* Pfeifer

02-17-06,, 08:26 AM

Todd you noticed that too??? all caps sure do make it more difficult to read I think.

WEISER 4

02-20-06,, 09:52 AM

gary i think that it was pretty noticeable at the banquet how WKA was catering to MARGAY thats all it was about how great MARGAY was and how about glenn firing winning the crew cheif of the year award what a joke they win like 2 classes all year long that they cherry picked in give me a break. and jerry vaugh winning best looking go kart that thing looked like a 1970 for ford pinto out there. WKA never even talked about the other kart company out there that support the series.. i just wonder how much money margay is paying to wka??????? make you wonder

KartRacer12

02-20-06,, 10:19 AM

I Agree with Kart84. Margay Isnt a euro kart? Last time i checked here in America we dont use the metric system.Do we?Who else won a special award at the banquet besides margay, thats right no one.And keith freber sitting at the wka table is he a member of wka, or just pay there salaries?This series is going in the wrong direction fast.i love how you guys say use spell check what are you editors look through for our mistakes?

gary10

02-20-06,, 10:39 AM

I respectfully must say that Travis earned his championsips this year. For you to say he "cherry-picked" them is not only a slap in the face to him, but also to me and everyone else that ran the animal classes. At that, I would really love to know who you are. I am sure you know who i am if you were at the banquet and you are so informed about margay and all of their business. I would love the opportunity to make it possible for you to race either me or Travis so we could shut your mouth.

Well if having a 40mm metric axle assembly, metric nuts/bolts to put the steering wheel on, and a metric spindle you must be right. That makes up the whole kart right there i guess. Well coyote and bandit must be Euro karts now too because I have seen them with 40mm axles. Maybe they are just a "Little Euro" i guess.

I didn't even know Jerry Vaughn won best looking kart...I don't necessarily agree either, but I'm not the one making the decisions and i know Margay isn't paying anyone to make them either. I am pretty sure Keith is a WKA member so technically you are right he does pay their salaries....as do I and probably you too!

WEISER 4

02-20-06,, 11:02 AM

gary you will be racing me this year at jacksonville i will be kart 84 that passes you so fast down the back straight way your head will spin.. and i guess you are correct you are a cherry piked also i heard all you were running this year is animal classes

fastkid05

02-20-06,, 11:02 AM

Well said Gary, I agree with everything you said. I would also like to add why would Margay have to pay WKA for the awards that the people on Margay's win, Margay has enough people eligable to win any race, why would they have to "bribe" WKA?

KartRacer12

02-20-06,, 11:12 AM

I hear alot of talking by Gary10 but is he really saying anything? Who is this guy anyways kinda seems like hes in love with his self,hopefully kart 84 shows him in jacksonville.

BShenck

02-20-06,, 11:21 AM

If kart84 will guarantee he will show up at Jacksonville (put up some money) I would be glad to make the trip to watch.

I'm not a fan of the 4 kart classes, but Animal is anything but that. If kart84 has won anything in his life, maybe he would like to share his information with us. Anybody can talk, especially when they hide behind an unkown name.

WEISER 4

02-20-06,, 11:22 AM

fastkid05 you should argee with gary if it was not for him setting up your kart you would never win a race!!!!!!!

KartRacer12

02-20-06,, 11:26 AM

This discussion was not started to see who can beat who.Its real purpose is to say that Margay gets wat they want outa wka.Tire Rule,Impound,whats next spec kart(Margay).Who cares whos hiding no one else wants to express how they feel bout the subject.Im sure im not the only one

gary10

02-20-06,, 11:30 AM

It is obvious this whole thread is about nothing more than jealousy. The Gold Cup Could just as well had been The Coyote Cup where their drivers won all the Championships and all the awards. They had the "Factory Team" and gave away suits and discounts on tires etc. Everyone hates to see the new guy come in and win. A few years ago Jeff Gordon was the most hated guy in NASCAR because he came in and immediately started whipping Dale Earnhardt. After struggling the past few years people have moved their hate onto other guys that have been successful in a short time like Jimmy Johnson. Things will never change.

That is why i am done talking about this nonsense because it is pointless and all you want to do is complain and argue.

p.s. How many Grandnationals have you won? I know the 05 kid has won a few now....no matter who set up his kart. I helped plenty of other people too win races this year. But who hasn't had help at some point or another. I know i have. Don't be jealous because you don't have anyone that will help you.

Tpohl

02-20-06,, 01:33 PM

As someone fairly new to karting and very new to the Gold Cup, I don’t see how people can talk a lot of trash about Gary. I do not know Gary very well at all, but with that said I do know he is an awesome competitor and doesn’t cherry pick or hide from anyone. There may be a lot of people who don’t like him (maybe because he is successful, maybe other reason’s) but one thing everyone can not deny is that Gray is a hell of a driver and is very successful not only at Gold Cup, but Street Races and did great at the Man Cup in Dec. Personally I loved seeing a 4 cycle guy go to Daytona and beat up on the 2 cycle guys. I think the Gold Cup is heading (even though most of you don’t agree) in a good direction as it is allowing people without a ton of money to come race the series and have a chance to be competitive. The spec tire and spec rims allow me to come to the track with two sets of rims and two sets of tires for the weekend and not have to worry about wishing I had or could afford some other rims to maybe be more competitive. The no tire prep rule is great for the newer people to karting as I do not have to worry about preping and have the prep of the day. I can honestly say I did not once use prep last year in the Gold Cup and had a fairly sucesfull season for my first year in Gold Cup. I will be in Jacksonville running the two Animal classes (which I guess is Cherry Picking) on my Coyote and will do everything I can to beat the Margay’s and Bandits for that matter.
Jason Trennepohl

WEISER 4

02-20-06,, 01:54 PM

i have nothing against any one coming into the gold cup and winning i am all for new kart companys joining the gold cup how ever that being said anyone could win when WKA makes the rules to fit the make of kart which in these case is margay. i think that it is pretty sad no one else will tell these people how the feel but me.... if these people dont stand up for what they think is correct this will be nothing but a spec series which is said

WEISER 4

02-20-06,, 01:55 PM

gary 20 years racing go karts ...3 grand national champships... 9 national wins.... 5 national champships

BShenck

02-20-06,, 02:35 PM

Which rules have been an advantage to Margay up till this point? Margay did it with drivers not rules. So that is what all the crying is about.

gary10

02-20-06,, 02:57 PM

If you really are standing up for something you need to say who you are or you have no credibility. Either way i am done just arguing.

rookie driver

02-20-06,, 05:26 PM

You all who have spoken on this thread, Can you please go back and read what you have posted? Do you really enjoy racing the Gold Cup? It does not sound like it. The tire and rim rule is for 1 year. It will even out. With engines, tires and rims it is a big transitional year. Some of these replies are longer than the time it takes you to run a heat race. Enjoy Jacksonville, I will see the rest of you at Summit Point.

todd

02-20-06,, 05:50 PM

WKA catered to margay??? how many class championships did Margay win last year with the Dunlop tire/open wheel rule??? If margay won these championships with the open wheel/dunlop tire rule why would they need the Firestones/fixed wheel combo??? Aren't they winning races anyway???

I smell jealousy!!! Or a MID-PACKER!!!

GotMilk

02-20-06,, 06:05 PM

Hey Rookie, I can see your smile and your orange tape in your response.

Keep bringing the smile, I may need some more tape for the new dash though.

JD

rookie driver

02-20-06,, 06:10 PM

JD. I got the orange tape! My kart with me in it may have trouble making the lighter weights at Summit. Is your driver available?

Phantom01

02-20-06,, 06:45 PM

it does appear that wka is favoring margay a little, but i'll bet a few years ago people said the same thing about coyote. it seems which ever mfg. is more present and working with their drivers at the track seem to do a little better at the end of the year. although tommy triplet is on the prowel. as for lawson ,i thought he was a fair and descent driver. it looks like some personal vengence at this point. i don't think wka is heading in the right direction but i guess kart count will decide. as far as voicing ones opinion to be heard by wka, i think about 300 of us signed a petition at 2003 GN race to leave the 3 year tire rule alone for the 2 year duration that was left. we saw what happened. my opinion is lets go to summit point for some sprint endro racing and have fun for a change. Kart 84, easy now thats a tight turn at the end of that straight away. seen karts make it all the way to the fence.

KartRacer12

02-20-06,, 07:31 PM

So no one else will stand up for wat they think.I know you Coyote and Bandit guys have opinions.Margay was succesful last year and WKA was not favoring any chassis or manufacturer,but now with WKA catering to them thats all you will see.This forum has nothing to do with how great Gary Lawson is so lets quit sucking up and talk bout the matter at hand or dont talk

rookie driver

02-20-06,, 07:35 PM

Kartracer12, In your last post, what do you mean"no with WKA catering to them"?

dclracing

02-20-06,, 07:38 PM

can't spell

dclracing

02-20-06,, 07:40 PM

But I'm not perfect. This is getting real old. I also know Margay doesn't use prep.

KartRacer12

02-20-06,, 07:47 PM

Last year was a fair season Margay just had the majority of the drivers.This year with every rule favoring them what will happen? Margay doesnt use prep? Be real

bdhracing21

02-20-06,, 09:32 PM

This is getting real interesting, great build up for Jacksonville.

Dan

WEISER 4

02-21-06,, 05:47 AM

2005 class championships standings BANDIT KART 9 classes MARGAY KARTS 7 classess COYOTE KARTS 2 classess.. bandit karts had more champions with less drivers way to go tommy you are the man.

Steve Kilsdonk

02-21-06,, 08:30 AM

Here's my two cents, since #12 wants to hear from some Coyote drivers.

Are the rim rules intened to help Margay? I don't really know. I saw Dana Lail pop a bead in front of me in Charlotte, but that looked like the bead melted to the rim. I've only ever seen one other person pop a bead, but that was a YHC Bridgestone, and the guy admitted it probably was too wide of a rim. So I see no evidence of a big problem here, and I must say it is easy to get suspicious when Keith is the guy calling for the rule and recommending what the rim sizes should be.

Specifying what tires go where on the kart for sure does hurt the Coyotes, I think. My first race on 6" wheels at New Castle, I started practice with the small tires in front and big in back, but I saw that EVERYONE else on Coyotes had the big tires on one side. I tried that, picked up a heap of time, and haven't run a straight setup since. Can a Coyote work with these rules? Maybe, but it probably will require adjustments that I had never had to consider before, like different axles, extra seat struts, and playing with bumper tightness.

Along with this, I don't think the rim rules will make things much cheaper, because people will have to buy different axles and seat struts to tune their karts in different ways than before. I don't do much tuning to my kart to make it fast, just castor/camber and weight distribution, but talking to Lipari at kartfest, he was talking about all kinds of crazy adjustments to try that my '03 Wide Track doesn't have. So, I might have to buy a newer kart to get that stuff, which does nothing to save me money.

Is the Gold Cup fun? I'm having a good time in senior sportsman. Most everybody gets along, and the racing is cleaner because of it. There weren't any hard feelings that I knew about when I swept Dousman, and I hope no one thought I must have been cheating or prepping to do it, because I wasn't.

Were the subjective awards for the Gold Cup a joke? Oh yeah! No offense to Ashley, but someone who puts "All About Ashley Tour" on her kart, and doesn't take any responsibility for not tightening the air filter, isn't that good at being a sportsman. I can't comment on most of the other awards because I don't know everybody in the series to judge who should get best family or mechanic, but once again, it is suspicious that Margay competitors swept the awards.

One last thing. I think that Margay's success last year came as much from who was on their karts more than the karts they were on. About the only guys Coyote had in the pro classes who had proven records were the Cassitys, and they ran at the front consistently. Margay just has the majority of the top runners under their tent right now.

Steve Kilsdonk, #51

Ideal

02-21-06,, 08:38 AM

Some of you have already lost the race at Jacksonville before you even leave. You say favoritism and have the mindset you have NO CHANCE!!! Guess what, YOU DON'T!!!! The rules are different, it's a new year and everyone is at 0 points. Get out in the shop and get prepared to WIN!!!!

WEISER 4

02-21-06,, 09:23 AM

the only point i am trying to make is we all have our work cut out for us trying to beat THE NEW WKA MARGAY RACING TEAM....... i think that these other kart companys coyote and bandit should of had some say so in all the rule changes and just not did whatever margay wanted for there karts.. i think everyone will see at jacksonville that kart count is down that wka is killing our series by giving margay everything they want. THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALL ABOUT MARGAY there our other people that make a living selling karts as well and when wka gives margay everything it makes it tuff for everyone else ....

Tpohl

02-21-06,, 09:28 AM

With everything being said... let's go to Jacksonville and Find out! I know I am prepairing to go down there and see what I can do in Animal... I do not feel like I am at a disadvantge because I have one kart brand instead of another. I drive a Coyote because that is what I like, I feel more comfortable with the front end adjustments I can make and the amount of time it takes me to make these. I also know the Margay guys have been playing the changle axles and moving seats ect... for a long time, even when we had the open wheel rule. I am looking forward to Jacksonville and I hope to see a good turn out (even though that looks unlikey)! Steve have you decided to run Gold Cup this year? Hope so...

NYkarter52

02-21-06,, 10:55 AM

The way I feel, is that if this all stays 'friendly' it can only be good for competition. I wont even say that one brand is favored over another, but so what if it is? Doesnt that make you want to step up your game and beat the guys on top? What goes around comes around, sometimes they make rules you like and sometimes you get stuck. weather it be a 10in wide fairing or switching from DBS to DCS tires in the middle of last season. Like them or not WKA is your sanctioning body, and knowing them the rules will change 6 times before this season is over anyway. So go race and see what happens, I know some of the guys up here in the northeast probably havent even been in a kart since charlotte, and they're already complaining. Like someone above said if you already think you're beat, you're right, with that attitude you'll never win in anything. I wont be running the Gold Cup this year but I wish I was. I also hope that the guys can keep themselves professional and put on a good show to get people back into this type of karting. I have a lot of respect for a lot of these people and values their opinions, but there comes a time when its time to just put on your helmet and race...

Steve: I gotta stick up for Jimmy here its not Limpari... its Lipari. Tony the toe always says that and im sure it drives not only me crazy :)

Good Luck to all of you in '06

KartRacer12

02-21-06,, 02:55 PM

No one may be at a disadvantage but the fact is margay gets wat they want outa wka.Did any karters competion commity members get a vote on this.I dont beilve so.Margay doesnt have the better drivers the have majority Bandit with the least drivers won 9 classes this year.I dont know bout you but pretty impressive hats off to Tommy

cole

02-21-06,, 04:42 PM

people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont you get it ????????????????? its always been like this, your leaving out one key piece to the puzzle??

pte359

02-21-06,, 05:58 PM

anit this computer racing fun. looks like Jacksonville will be a blast ,that is if all yall show up .

Just some thoughts from Mississippi.

mag17

02-22-06,, 05:06 AM

How many years has this race at Summit Point been held?

GotMilk18

02-22-06,, 07:12 AM

Mag17 I'll check on the Summit question. I think 20 years plus. If I get an answer I'll put it on the Summit string.

JD

Brooksy

02-22-06,, 08:04 AM

Man, out of two pages worth of replies,... I'm still trying to figure how the new rules actually benefit Margay other than someone just saying it does!

Steve Kilsdonk

02-22-06,, 08:13 AM

Coyotes have proven time and again to run well on tires stretched to rims 2+ inches wider than the rubber, and at least in my area the offset is a popular setup choice as well. I'm unsure about the potential of my kart if my rim width is cut down and I can't put my big tires down the side of the kart.

Being cynical, some of us think that Freber knows what rims the Margay needs for the 'Stones and what the Coyote needs to be competitive as well, and so maybe he suggested a rules package to hamper the competition. We'll see if that turns out to be true in a month I guess, intentional, accidental, or just paranoia.

WEISER 4

02-22-06,, 10:19 AM

FCHP

02-22-06,, 10:38 AM

I think some people have not been racing in a time before there was a Dunlop tire rule.

I have always liked Firestones on the Bandit karts and I have seen several Coyotes & Invaders run quite well with Firestone tires also. The YFA is not a new tire, it has been around many years.

I need to go outside and look..... maybe the sky is falling and I just missed it!!

(Bandit's will rock Jacksonville this year!!!!) :D

cole

02-22-06,, 10:54 AM

your getting close!!!!!!

gary10

02-22-06,, 11:37 AM

Jamie,
I think i said that same thing a few weeks ago so you are just wasting your breath. People will believe what they want to and ignore everything else. Thank you for having a little confidence.

I guess you guys don't realize that people like Larson, Firing, and myself usually ran 600's on the right sides also. I'm pretty sure that's what i ran at charlotte and dousman and camden. Imagine how fast i would have been i guess if i would have ran what the kart was supposedly meant for. I guess those 600's on 8 1/2" wheels were all wrong that i had.

I also never saw Keith Freber out doing any track testing at any time this year. A kart that is nearly the same for both 2 cycle and 4 cycle that runs on YHC's and before DCS's doesn't seem like it would prefer one rim width over another. It is just a kart that WORKS, period. I am sure some of you know some karts are better than others. You may have had one kart that always worked really well no matter what...I guess that's what you can say driving a Margay is like.

Why don't you guys call WKA and talk to them about why margay won all the awards and got to do all of the testing and so on and quit complaining on here about it behind some unknown name where nothing is going to get done and you have no credibility.

WEISER 4

02-22-06,, 12:05 PM

kfreber

02-22-06,, 12:18 PM

well lets see margay was the only kart company that test the rim rule. margay is also the only kart company that test the new tires and import the tires so sounds like wka is giving them everythinhg they want. call me crazy but that is what it looks like form here. wka never called any other kart company to test for them

"KART84" (whoever you may be)-

You may want to check your facts. WKA did invite a representative from another kart manufacturer to evaluate the YFA tires and proposed wheel widths at Charlotte. They were unable to attend.

The YFA tire has been around for quite some time (almost 10 years). It has remained unchanged during that period and is a proven tire. When tires were 'open' in Gold Cup the YFA was a pretty popular choice.

I will go on the record and say that I am absolutely in favor of limiting the wheel width for two reasons; one, cost and complexity, which was addressed pretty nicely by Mr. Trennepohl (who, BTW, won a championship on his Coyote) and two, safety. The manufacturers (_not_ importers) maximum recommended wheel width for the 5.00 is _5"_ and the max recommeded width for the 6.50 is 8". Yes, you were able to bead up your _7.1_ DBS on a 10" wheel, but it is just not happening with a 6.50 YFA. The 6.50 casing is not capable of being spread 3" without dramatically increasing the possibility of de-beading. It's a narrower tire..........

I do have to say that the amount of complaining by some people over this rule is pretty hard to figure. It really isn't going to benefit any one brand over another and the people that believe that it is...well, not sure what to say about that except show up and race...the rule is the same for everybody. Anybody that says they are staying home because of this rule has other issues---

BTW, you better have some metric wrenches to work on your new Harley V-Rod or virtually any other domestic vehicle...

Last thing, since WKA has given us everything we want, everybody is welcome to join us by the new pool and bar area in the middle of the Jacksonville pits. Drinks on the house and all the food you can eat! ;)

Have fun & race.............

Best regards,

Keith Freber
Margay Products, Inc.
St. Louis, MO USA
since 1964~

FCHP

02-22-06,, 12:29 PM

Last thing, since WKA has given us everything we want, everybody is welcome to join us by the new pool and bar area in the middle of the Jacksonville pits.
You know they can do it..... a few years back we turned the whole pit area into a swimming pool for everyone!! Or maybe it was a monster truck or tractor pulling rally!!

kfreber

02-22-06,, 12:44 PM

gary the god has spoken again i thought you were done talking on here big man? the reason why you keep coming back is because everythinhg that is being said about MARGAY getting everythinhg they want from wka is the truth . if you seem to know everythinhg than you should know that keith was at lowes motorspeedway when travis firing was testing the rims for WKA..

Kart84-

I have to agree with you here, Gary is a god! Well, maybe not a god, but a pretty damn good driver. Anybody (no matter what brand of chassis they are on) who wins a Gold Cup Event (Lowes-Briggs Heavy), two Man Cup events (Daytona-HPV Heavy, Sr. Sportsman Heavy) AND dominates the biggest street race of the year (Rock Island-3 wins) all in the span of 4 months defintely qualifies for the PDGD category!

You're also right about him being a 'big man' which really bums me out...I'd really like to see him in ICA.

What you failed to mention is that Gary is also one of the nicest guys in the pits (hey, he just looks mean) and he is certified to teach kindergarten.

Best regards,

Keith Freber
Margay Products, Inc.
St. Louis, MO USA
Since 1964~

WEISER 4

02-22-06,, 12:52 PM

kfreber

02-22-06,, 01:24 PM

keith i would think with such a big rule change that margay and wka would have worked out a time that fit all kart companys to test the new rim rule. i have never said that the yfa tire was not a good tire. so lets stop and take good look at things.
margay imports all tires for bridgestone,douglas wheels. margay is the only kart company that can go to the rim test. so margay gets the size of tires and rims that work best on there karts and the get to sell the tires and rims to all the racers. sounds kind of strange dont you think so???? good luck in jacksonville looking forward to some good racing..

"Kart84"

At your request, let's do "stop and take a look at things."

Margay is one of three distributors for Bridgestone tires. If your dealer is not happy in working with us, they have two two other options when buying their tires. We happen to be the ones actively supporting the Gold Cup series. Even if we had zero customers in this series, odds are you would have the exact same wheel/tire rule in place for 2006.

Douglas Wheels? Yep, we sell them as do about 100 other dealers and distributors on the east coast. Not sure why you mention this. I know that Coyote is affiliated with Douglas and I'm not sure about Bandit, but what does this have to do with anything? Williams makes a fine product available in the same sizes as Douglas. The wheel sizes in question are ones that the vast majority of competitors already have.

Again, a representative from another kart manufacturer was invited to test at the same time. They declined. No problem as the YFA and Douglas/Williams wheels were readily available for anyone to test at anytime. I am certain that WKA welcomed and considered any relevant input in this matter when making their decison on the 2006 rules package.

When March 25 rolls around, competitors and manufacturers will have had a minimum of four months to evaluate the specified tires and wheel widths.

I think that you and several others are really missing the point here...we could care less what wheels and tires we race on. You want to put skateboard wheels on the things? Fine. Mickey Thompson Drag Slicks all the way around? That's cool with us. It doesn't matter...adapt to the situation. I think our product was fairly competitive on the previous wheel tire combination...as it was when we had open tires as well. The point with limiting wheel widths was to take a long-term view on cost and complexity.

Please tell me, who specifically would you have suggested as the logical choice for any sort of testing?

Best regards,

Keith Freber
Margay Products, Inc.
St. Louis, MO USA
Since 1964~

FCHP

02-22-06,, 01:44 PM

The point with limiting wheel widths was to take a long-term view on cost and complexity.
I'm staying out of the "who should have" deal, but your quote above here I quoted is what I have an issue with.

Everytime I hear WKA is going to save me money, it ends up costing me more. Keith, if WKA is TRUELY interested in saving the racer money, then why not stick everyone on a set of 4.5/6.0 Bridgestone YHC (or the updated compound) tires and 5" wheels. On the tires alone you are talking around $27 per set difference in pricing. The difference in wheels if you do not use the 6" machined wheels is around $10 per set and if you use 6" machined the difference is around $28 per set. So a $37 - $56 per set price savings could be realized. I think most everyone will bring at LEAST 2 sets of tires to the national so you are talking a savings of $74 - $112 JUST ON TIRES/WHEELS.

I know... I know... everyone says they are faster on 6" tires/wheels... yep, I agree. BUT IF EVERYONE HAS TO RUN THE SAME TIRES/WHEELS (whether it's 5" or 6") IT DOES NOT MATTER!

I have been saying this for a while. I personally think the YGC/YHC/(newest compound) is the best made tire for karting and one of the least expensive.

So tell me the tire deal was for another reason..... because I don't buy the reason of it is saving me money. Fact is, it's costing me because I still have Dunlop tires in the wrapper because we bought them in case quantity, and with the new rule, they basically dropped my (and other dealers) demand for the tire and left me with stock on the shelf. Sure we will use them up for local racing......... but don't tell me you are saving me money.

kfreber

02-22-06,, 02:37 PM

I'm staying out of the "who should have" deal, but your quote above here I quoted is what I have an issue with.

Everytime I hear WKA is going to save me money, it ends up costing me more. Keith, if WKA is TRUELY interested in saving the racer money, then why not stick everyone on a set of 4.5/6.0 Bridgestone YHC (or the updated compound) tires and 5" wheels. On the tires alone you are talking around $27 per set difference in pricing. The difference in wheels if you do not use the 6" machined wheels is around $10 per set and if you use 6" machined the difference is around $28 per set. So a $37 - $56 per set price savings could be realized. I think most everyone will bring at LEAST 2 sets of tires to the national so you are talking a savings of $74 - $112 JUST ON TIRES/WHEELS.

I know... I know... everyone says they are faster on 6" tires/wheels... yep, I agree. BUT IF EVERYONE HAS TO RUN THE SAME TIRES/WHEELS (whether it's 5" or 6") IT DOES NOT MATTER!

I have been saying this for a while. I personally think the YGC/YHC/(newest compound) is the best made tire for karting and one of the least expensive.

So tell me the tire deal was for another reason..... because I don't buy the reason of it is saving me money. Fact is, it's costing me because I still have Dunlop tires in the wrapper because we bought them in case quantity, and with the new rule, they basically dropped my (and other dealers) demand for the tire and left me with stock on the shelf. Sure we will use them up for local racing......... but don't tell me you are saving me money.

Chip-

As I have tried to point out, the decision is/was not mine. Did I offer my input? Absolutely, as any other WKA member could have.

IF it were up to me, the choice would have been 4.5/6.00 YHC, because as you state it is an excellent tire that is very reasonably priced.

You see what a wad some people are in over what I think was a relatively minor change (DCS/DBS to YFA along with the wheel width changes), can you imagine the screaming if the series would have gone to 5" wheels across the board? Good grief.

Going to a harder (as long as it stays un-prepped) and smaller 5" diameter tire would place more emphasis on driving and less emphasis on set-up. Currently, the 4-cycle karts are way over-tired and under horsepowered which is why set-up is so hyper-critical, and in my opinion, one of the reasons why there is no growth in the series.

I do think that the 06 rules will save some competitors money because you should not have to burn new tires by experimenting with different rear wheel and tire widths.

The new rules will definitley save any new-to-Gold Cup drivers money as they won't have to buy as many wheels or experiment with the different rear wheel/tire combos.

Could we save them more money by going to 5" YHC's? Absolutely, but that's a battle you aren't going to win-

Best regards,

Keith Freber
Margay Products, Inc
St. Louis, MO USA
Since 1964~

CDR0

02-22-06,, 02:51 PM

Keith,
since you brought my name up here you go.....
I got a copy of Sandy's email she sent out explaining her "concern" over wheel widths if anyone would enjoy a laugh .
She must of had all the best intentions by sending her email to all the "right" people .
I enjoyed the part where she went on to explain how they tested a margay and a coyote with the new tire widths .
I am just wondering is there a shortage of YFA tires ?
I have seen alot of people looking for tires .
Doesnt seem fair to me to have spec rules and not enough tires to go around .
Nothing changes all the behind the scenes polotics Sandy Gregory was the main one that pushed for this rule change thats fact I have the email .
If the members got a chance to vote on making 90% of there wheels and tires unuseable for 2006 they would have voted no to any rule change .
CDR

FCHP

02-22-06,, 02:51 PM

CHIP!!!!!...... LOL... No sir... there is ONLY one of those that I know of and it is NOT me!! :D If it were up to Chip we would probably be running YFA's on the front and YEX's on the back!! :)

I did not mean to insinuate the decision was up to you, my only comment was towards the quote of the new tire rule "saving me money". I attend, help out, and race dirt & asphalt ovals, sprint, and enduro races.... I don't think I have benifited from a rule that was made to "save me money" yet... but I could be wrong.

I realize the all 5" battle will most likely never be won.... but it should be considered if they TRULEY intend on "saving the racer money in the LONG term".

Signed,
>>Jamie Webb<<
P.S. (the above post and opinions are mine and only mine, and Chip has neither been contacted by me or approved any of my comments!!) LOL :D
P.S.S. Yes, Gary is a PDGD. Even if he is on one of "those" karts!! ;)
P.S.S.S. Gary is a school teacher????????????? Poor kids!! LOL Does he flex at them to make them pay attention!! (yes, I amuse even myself at times)
P.S.S.S.S SEE YOU GUYS IN JAX!

FCHP

02-22-06,, 02:53 PM

Look at that.... Chip showed up before I even finished typing my response to Keith!! LOL.

CDR0

02-22-06,, 03:04 PM

I was going to stay out of this thread untill the little name mixup :)
Glad those guys up in MO are keeping me in mind I might just show up somewhere to race with them again just let me know what your going to get the rules to be before hand would be nice .
how many years is this tire and wheel combo good for more then a 1/2 a season this year ?
CDR

WEISER 4

02-22-06,, 03:19 PM

tire rule in effect until margay makes a chassis change or until after jacksonville after coyote and bandit whipes up on them and the go crying back to wka... chip glad you finally came aboard this post at least you will speak the truth.

CDR0

02-22-06,, 03:21 PM

Im rooting for you KART84 (who is this masked man ?)
CDR

Schaffer's Lube

02-22-06,, 04:28 PM

DOUBLE JEOPARDY:

WHAT DO KUGLER, FIRING, FREBER, & WAYNE W. HAVE IN COMMON?

WINNER OF DOUBLE JEOPARDY GETS THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE ADDED TO THE LIST!

hinge

02-22-06,, 04:50 PM

Can I buy a vowel?

kfreber

02-22-06,, 04:50 PM

Chip and Jamie-

Sorry about the name mix up--

Chip there is no shortage of YFA tires..How many do you want? That's just somebody trying to further stir the pot

Keith Freber
Margay Products, Inc.
St. Louis, MO USA
Since 1964~

rookie driver

02-22-06,, 06:42 PM

Schaffer's Lube, In Jeopardy, Double Jeopardy and Final Jeopardy you are suppose to give the answers, and we will respond in the form of a question. You BLEW it.

Schaffer's Lube

02-22-06,, 08:24 PM

THATS A NEGATIVE THERE ROOKIE, YOUR RESPONSE SHOULD BE.

WHO IS *****?

GOOD DAY

hinge

02-22-06,, 09:41 PM

I was playing Wheel of Fortune before- my bad.
Who is on the Board of Directors for Margay Products?
Or.... who decided on the tire rule for '06?
Or... who's favorite daytime talk show host is Jerry Springer?

mag17

02-24-06,, 09:29 AM

We hope to have the slide finished by Early March...

bdhracing21

03-05-06,, 05:19 PM

Mag17,

What kind of slide are you working on.

Dan

Ideal

03-27-06,, 08:55 PM

how did kart84 do..just wondering

tomsmom

03-28-06,, 01:13 AM

Now that mom and dad haved moved out of Florida and left Tommy behind, it felt good for dad to go south and watch Tommy take a win. It always feels great be it whatever kart he's sitting in.
Margay has a great product with great team sponsors. If it wasn't a class act it wouldn't attract so many of the top drivers. Andy and Tommy wouldn't have moved their reputation over if that not be true.
As for the banquet guest that must not have had a good vantage point, Keith was sitting at the Margay team table along with key team sponsors.
Only complaint about the banquet - could somebody please learn when to turn off the fog machine.:-)